Interviewer: 60 Minutes presents a live interview with Lana O’Shannassy here to talk to us about poker machine and gambling addiction.
Interviewer: Lana thank you for being here tonight to share your story with us.
Lana O'Shannassy: Thank you. How are you all? My name is Lana O'Shannassy, I had a gambling addiction, particularly pokie machines for over 10 years. I’m one of the lucky ones who have managed to stop playing pokies and I’m happy to answer any questions as best I can.
Benita asks: What is it that sends someone down the road to becoming a gambling addict?
Lana O'Shannassy: I think too much of anything can’t be a good thing and can lead to terrible consequences. Pokie machines were my only form of gambling addiction and from what I understand now, I think Pokies are an unsafe product and they contributed as much to my addiction as I did. I don’t think you need to have a pre-disposition to become addicted to the Pokies.
jimmy8 asks: Hi Lana - I guess it is difficult to turn it around. Did you ever think about buying shares or even working for Aristocrat (Pokie machine manufacturer) as a means of combating your addiction? I mean if you can't beat em' - join em'!
Lana O'Shannassy: My means of attempted to beat the addiction was to research pokies and to become involved with legal actions (against Aristocrat and others), however the urge remains and I will continue to combat pokies as best I can in order to keep away from them.
Benita asks: How do you get away with it when you are gambling secretly? How do you ensure that your family and employers don't find out? Or, at the end of the day, is it always the case you get caught?
Lana O'Shannassy: I learnt to become a very good liar. I thought constantly of ways to cover my activities so that others wouldn’t find out, I asked others to lie for me. I used being a young some what attractive lady to my advantage in asking others to assist me. The only ones to find out were my family and they were the ones I hurt the most.
addictedpunt asks: If every problem gambler claimed their losses as a tax deduction . A part time course in responsible gambling perhaps , or investment opportunity gone wrong maybe the government may stand up and address the issue and help those concerned as the benefit to them now become severely diminished , as most people have paid tax already on there losses and problem gamblers are also paying interest on credit borrowed and gambled . Could this be a solution to stop governments looking at gaming as a cash cow ? And give help to people with a real issue ?
Lana O'Shannassy: Absolutely, I think it’s much like the smoking issue like with the cost issue associated with smoking eventually outweighs the revenue they get from cigarettes. The same can be used for pokies, more people like you should voice this opinion because most people who are suffering are too ashamed to talk about it, therefore the problems cannot be addressed.
Bertie asks: Where does personal responsibility come into the gambling equation?
Lana O'Shannassy: We are all responsible for our own actions and I have paid the consequences of my actions, however sometimes we all need restrictions in place to save us from ourselves. I refer to drink driving. While we are all personally responsible not to drink and drive, there is a law against it in order to protect people from being harmed.
jimmy asks: Lana did you feel so low that you considered the fate of the other unlucky young lady? What was the turning point for you?
Lana O'Shannassy: Yes I have attempted suicide. The turning point was being very fortunate in meeting my now husband who had no regard for pokies and was stronger than I was so was able to restrict my contact with them, thank God.
nick asks: hi Lana, thank you for telling your story. I have a question for you, how long since your last bet.and how do get through the day when you feel like gambling?
Lana O'Shannassy: I have fallen off the wagon a number of times, most recently just last year. Each days continues to be a struggle, however now that my family all know about the issue, they have become such a strong team in supporting me and I can talk freely about it to those around me, because I no longer blame myself entirely.
kirkboy asks: seriously how did you put money on the table for 5 kids when u gambled majority of your income?
Lana O'Shannassy: I wasn’t able to. Most of the time my children were with their grandmother or waiting with another family member in the foyer of the venue I was in asking for money before I gambled it all. I also gained alternative finances through deceptive means in order to pay the bills I had not paid by gambling the money I had earned.
Rivers asks: Hiya Lana, enjoyed the interview, at what age did u start playing the one arm bandits? and where did u get the cash from all the time ?
Lana O'Shannassy: I was 18 years of age when I started. Cash came from income, I would constantly try to achieve in my roles so that I would be promoted and therefore quickly climbed up the business ladder. I would also spend money that I had borrowed from family, from banks (credit cards) and of course I reinvested every cent I had ever won on the pokies (that is if I ever walked out of the venue with anything).
wizard asks: Thankyou for your honesty Lana, how long have you gone without gambling and do you attend GA?
Lana O'Shannassy: The longest I have gone in about 14 months. I’ve never stayed at GA longer than one meeting because I found that they blamed me for the problem and there was no responsible gambling emphasis on venues which I disagreed with.
elle asks: how is it possible for ME to help my loved ones addicted to the pokies?
Lana O'Shannassy: The best thing that you can do is to try to talk to your loved ones about the issue. If this means creating a safe environment, or some sort of intervention or just a private chat, then I would try anything given that the ultimate outcome is what happened to the young lady from Adelaide. Other things you can try are offering to assist by controlling finances for these people or by contacting them regularly to ensure they are where they are suppose to be, or by asking them how you can help them (this does not mean giving them money).
Geoffrey asks: I have just come to terms with my own gambling addiction. What mechanisms/techniques can you reveal to help me with the guilt of lying/deceit and risking everything in my life?
Lana O'Shannassy: Just know that lying and deceit come hand in hand with being a pokies addict, you are not alone. And there are many others other there suffering just the same, I have found that you can live happily ever after as long as you have support and that you need to over come your guilt and feelings of shame in order to allow loved ones to help you.
Michael asks: Can I ask, what do you think of the Responsible Service of Gaming courses, have you ever seen anyone be refused service of gaming?
Lana O'Shannassy: Never! I’ve self excluded every venue I’ve gambled at, and I was invited to cancel that self-exclusion on my very next occasion when visiting those venues. That’s about as blatant it can be as how RSG is enacted in the workplace. I hope that some day venues will become more responsible, but ultimately I hope that machines won’t be around for too much longer.
bmobryan asks: If the machines were controlled do you think that you would have gambled in some other form?
Lana O'Shannassy: No. I wish my cards had been in place before now. I would still be able to hold my head up high if that were the case.
ryan asks: speaking as someone that has lost over 9000 dollars on poker machines, why do you think they are as addictive and enticing as they are?
Lana O'Shannassy: Gaming machine manufacturers are the gloss of the gambling industry. They have plenty of profits to conduct marketing strategies and research and these strategies are focused on how to entice consumers to play for longer and to spend more than they normally would. They are just as accountable as the government (no accountable at all) and should be the ones who are ashamed of themselves.
Teges asks: my bf is addicted to pokies is there any advice u could give me to help him try and quit?
Lana O'Shannassy: You can lead him to the 60 minutes story and other recently articles on problem gambling. You can be there and be strong for him when you suspect he has lost money on pokies and reassure him that everything will be okay. If this is an issue you are able to discuss with him, you can be assertive and offer your support in practical ways such as making him accountable for his time, controlling the finances and finding other activities that will deter him from spending all of his time on pokies. Hope that helps.
kaye asks: I have a pokie problem and even though I know I shouldn't do it at the time I can convince myself that a little bit won't hurt. Do you have any suggestions about how to stop myself in the moment?
Lana O'Shannassy: Pokies are designed to keep your attention continuously because when you turn your head, you realize you shouldn’t be there. I suggest taking a break if you can, either to get a coffee or to making a phone call. And it will give you a better chance in realizing that you could be with family or at a movie or spending your money on something more worthwhile, and keep in mind that the best way to tackle this issue is to reframe from walking in to the venue. Don’t walk through the door.
fordy asks: Hi Lana, Thank you for sharing your story. I too am addicted to poker machines. I am afraid of losing my wife if she founds out exactly how much money I have lost. In your opinion is the best thing to do is tell her or continue to try and cover up. I have been trying hard to stay off them but I always end up putting at least a couple $100 through each week
Lana O'Shannassy: Your wife will find out eventually and the best thing to do for your own health and hers is to deal with the issue now. Life may change, but it can only get better (you know what I mean). Keep it up, as you saw from the story tonight, you cannot win and there is life beyond pokies.
nick asks: How could you manage to steal from employers? Did no one find out or were they just intimidated because you’re Boss.
Lana O'Shannassy: Sometimes they would find out, but I was a fast talker, I always had a strategy in mind to foreshadow any possible consequences. I was manipulative, deceptive and I thought at the time I was being very clever. But it affected everyone around me, it wasn’t all about me and I think if I had continued down that path I would be speaking to you from a jail cell now. I just go lucky.
MelCat asks: What was your breaking point Lana that made you realize enough was enough?
Lana O'Shannassy: My husband (second husband) threatened to leave if I was not honest about the pokies issue. I finally had the courage to come clean about everything I had done as it was a call for help and a huge relief to have someone who could at least know of the suffering and try to help.
shesells asks: I'm not sure if I'm compulsive gambler? I think I am but I haven't lost a lot of money. I gamble more than I can afford sometimes, but I don't really know how to avoid it. How do you know when to stop?
Lana O'Shannassy: The word “compulsive” or “problem” gambler is a stereotype initiated by the industry in order to put total blame on the consumer. There is no consumer protection surrounding pokies so any money spent on them is too much, you have answered your own question in your words. The fact that you cannot afford what you have been spending means that you are on the verge or have already become what the industry called a “compulsive” gambler. Stop now before it is too late.
kevine123 asks: Do you think those who say people no longer take responsibility for their own actions have a point?
Lana O'Shannassy: If we are talking about gambling in general, I would say yes. However pokies are a very different form of gambling to any other kind. They are an unsafe product, they are insidious (on every corner, pub, club) and as you saw from the story, the industry take none of the responsibly what so ever for their own products.
monica80 asks: If you know of a loved one that you suspect has a gambling problem what can you do? Do you confront them and try and get them help???
Lana O'Shannassy: Problem gamblers are extremely covered about their problem and you may not get an honest answer if you confront them. However if you are able to raise the issue, either subtly or with your own evident or suspicions, you may just initiate or open an dialogue with gives your loved one the opportunity to get this off their chest. We are screaming out for help, however problem gamblers feel totally alone and that they cannot share their feelings with anyone, even the ones they love.
brockg asks: Lana I am an a Responsible Conduct Gambling teacher and I would like to see addicts have to attend this course if for nothing else but the awareness factor? your thoughts?
Lana O'Shannassy: Awareness is key, especially when it comes to making positive change. Unless people are away of the issue surrounding problem gambling, there will be no progress. I would be happy to recommend counselling or services such as yours to anyone who has spends more than they can afford on pokies, but would be even happier if the problem gambler were reminded that they are not the sole cause of this problem and are more likely to seek help. Keep up the great work.
Ramblingrose asks: What comeback on the poker machine suppliers i.e. aristocrat, do people have in regards to those who do lose large amounts of money? Is there any recourse to recoup large losses?
Lana O'Shannassy: Unfortunately whilst our laws were designed to protect the consumers, regulation in each state of Australia is inconsistent. There is no recourse for anyone who is dissatisfied as a consumer, which is why being a support of your local MP who has pokies agenda in their policy and being aware of current legal action against the industry are some of the only things you can do. However if you are a person who has lost large sums of money on the pokies, you can assist a great deal with the issue by speaking out as I have. There are very few of us who will speak out given the feelings associated with being a problem gambler.
ananonymousg asks: Should pokies be banned all together or limit the amount of money is put in? Don't allow notes perhaps? Do football clubs really encourage RSG Responsible service of Gaming by being opened for 24 hours?
Lana O'Shannassy: Every state in Australia is different, some pokies accept notes, and others don’t. However the industry is able to over come the restrictions by introducing new laws (having pokies outside when no smoking laws came in). Again, there are some restrictions on opening hours of venues from state to state, however you have the right idea and we are hoping we can encourage federal government to become involved so these restrictions are uniformed and have a better change of reducing problem gamblers. I would like to see the federal police come in and remove all these machines but that could be some time coming.
Real-World asks: How come you did not seek to be excluded from the gambling areas by club staff. As now required by law?
Lana O'Shannassy: I provided ID, an application and a signature to every venue I had ever frequented, however when I wished to return even as little as four week later, I was welcomed by staff to continue playing (even at my local venue). Staff are either not comfortable or trained well enough to approach people who have self excluded, or venues turn a blind eye. Either way, self-exclusion in it’s current form doesn’t work. Believe me, I have tried.
luckystar asks: I think you're very brave to talk about this on television! I've also had a gambling problem for about 10 years but feel so so ashamed. Do you really believe it when they say only 5% of people at the pokies are problem gamblers? It doesn't look that way. You hardly ever see people just "having fun" and people stay and stay and stay. Just like me!
Lana O'Shannassy: Whilst the statistics provided by the industry (5%) may or may not be accurate. If the total number of people who play pokies, whilst 5% may be problem gamblers, 90% of their revenue come from these problem gamblers. So you are right, it seems that there are more problem gamblers than reported. I think the statistic are wrong because they are generated by the industry. I am embarrassed and ashamed also, but I am even more so frustrated with the lack of involvement in the problem gambling issue by the community and the government, which is the only reason I share my story.
will_melb asks: Hi, for a person with a gambling addiction, do you recommend reducing the pokie machine load daily or just stop playing pokies?
Lana O'Shannassy: The only recommendation I can give is to stop playing pokies. Whilst it may be your intention to reduce the time and money spent on pokies, this can never be achieved because they are designed to make you play for longer and spend more than you normally would.
Beenthere asks: Lana, how difficult was it to let your secret out to your family - for me it nearly killed me
Lana O'Shannassy: It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. And I am still dealing with the consequences, however coming clean with my family also saved my life. I would share the same fate as the young lady from Adelaide in the story tonight had I not had that one moment of good judgment (telling my family).
Morton asks: Hi Lana, do you know what support groups work the best. I have my own views but would be interested to hear your experience.
Lana O'Shannassy: I tried GA, counselling, gambling research consultants and I tried centres for addiction, however the thing that worked best was the support of my family because they were living the issue minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day and they were my sole source of inclination to overcome my addiction. However I would also recommend counselling simply for the fact that it’s a positive step, it’s a cry for help and you may just learn something.
russ asks: How does you partner overcome the trust issue? I still can’t sleep at night when my partner has "me" time. I used to feel cheated on and its still in the back of my mind
Lana O'Shannassy: The trust issue is definitely the hardest to overcome; I still have a trust issue with my husband. However I am determined to show him that I am 100% trust worthy (because I currently am) and that’s all my husband asks of me, which gives me hope for the future. Without this hope, I would be at a venue right now, so all I can suggest is to keep the issue open and to offer that trust as best as you can, because it is a real motivator.
gamblersmum asks: Lana after watching sixty minutes, I feel that you really struggle through every day of your life, even now, am I right?
Lana O'Shannassy: Yes, doing the story was difficult for me because I am still dealing with the consequences of my addiction, I am still ashamed. However if I don’t keep my chin up, I will delve into depression and fortunately my family has shown me that there is hope for a happily ever after. You read me like a book.
markyboy asks: Hello Lana, I work in the club industry and I see every day what the pokies do to people's lives. Did you have any other forms of gambling or just the pokies? Good luck to and you family for the future
Lana O'Shannassy: Thank you for your words of support, yes pokies were the only demon in my life. I’m sure you struggle also with the feelings associated with problem gambling given what you see everyday. Let’s just hope that people become more aware of this issue and force the industry to grow a conscience. You obviously hope for the same.
sixpack asks: Hi Lana, your story was a very big eye opener for me. I’ve recently lost my baby and have found it hard to do day to day things, my partner went away and I started gambling. I’ve been doing it for a while. How do you suggest I get help?
Lana O'Shannassy: I suggest talking to someone, anyone. I can’t emphasize enough that simply visiting a pokies venue is enough to grow into an addiction because pokies are inheritably unsafe. I’m sorry for your loss and can totally understand why you may have developed a problem, but it is not your fault and I hope you can be strong long enough to over come this issue also.
stickyveed asks: I have heard that one addiction always replaces another. Is this true for you? Do you believe this?
Lana O'Shannassy: I can only speak about my personal experience, which is that I have not replace my pokies addiction with anything except for having much more time on my hands which I now use to spend time with my children. I guess the addiction itself was necessary in order to open my eyes to what I was missing (my children growing up).
kaye asks: Do you have tips to help people get through the day to day urges of playing pokies?
Lana O'Shannassy: I can now laugh about it with family and friends when I drive by a venue (to some extent), which makes it easy for me, because I can jokingly talk about the urge to play pokies. If it weren’t for the very basic fact that my family are aware of the issue, then there is no way I could get by each day without visiting a venue. I hope that this situation will improve and that the day to day struggles will go away. And that is why the government and community involvement is now so important because people like us really need a helping hand.
Interviewer: Unfortunately, we are out of time, do you have any final comments or advice for us tonight?
Lana O'Shannassy: Keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming Productivity Commission report on pokies, thank you all for your honest and interesting comments and questions. There is a class action against the gaming industry across Australia managed by an organization called Duty of Care, with myself as the applicant. You can find out more by contacting at enquiries@dutyofcare.org.au
Interviewer: Lana, thank you for an interesting and informative interview tonight, and goodnight.
Interviewer: This concludes our chat with Lana O'Shannassy, Sunday August 2, 2009.
